My friends know I do not get upset often. But I become livid when people make judgements that are totally “illogical.’ There is no doubt in my mind that this year Steve Nash has been a better player than Kobe. Every midseason MVP article I have seen has Kobe in the top 10 and omits Nash. Kobe is an all-star and Nash is not. I do not care about PER, Win Score, or Win shares. I can show below that this year Nash has been more valuable thab Kobe. If my logic is wrong let me know.
The Suns play 8 points better than average per 48 min (adjusted for strength of opponent ) with Nash in. The Lakers play 7 points better than average with Kobe in. So the Suns are better with Nash in than Lakers are with Kobe in. Kobe has better (Bynum, Gasol, Odom, Fisher) teammates than Nash. So how can Kobe be better than Nash? Here are more points in favor of Nash
- Gasol and Odom in with Kobe out Lakers are 12 points better than average.
- Odom in and Kobe out Lakers are 8 points better than average.
- With Nash out Suns are a horrid -21 and Lakers are still 1 points better than average.
- With Nash in and Carter out Suns are 9 points better than average.
Let me know where I am wrong or admit Nash has been a better player this year than Kobe.
Forgive me if this is too easy a question, but doesn’t your argument assume the replacements for Kobe and Nash in those equations are of equal value? For instance, if the with Nash out the SUns go down 21 points, but the Lakers don’t miss as much when Kobe is out, the effect might be that the backup for Kobe is decent, whereas the backup for Nash is horrible.
(note: I still agree with you)
Comment by Matt Aq — February 17, 2011 @ 4:59 pm
U are right on backup but that does not change data when both players are in.
Comment by wwinston — February 17, 2011 @ 11:43 pm
so based on paragraph 2, nash is 1 pt better than kobe. Is this even close to being statistically significant?
Comment by CW — February 18, 2011 @ 12:15 am
Thank you Mr Winston
Comment by Matt Aq — February 18, 2011 @ 8:41 am
I’ve just erased a long counterexample written with my misunderstanding of the meaning of ‘average’. I thought the average means the average of each team. Is the points means only the offense scoring? or adjusted with the score lost? Anyway, I prefer Nash, too.
Comment by Phil Kim — February 21, 2011 @ 12:43 am
Nash is an amazing player.. To prove, just watch a Suns game late in the 3rd and early into the 4th when Nash takes a rest…the whole dynamic of the team changes for the worse. Nash typically comes back mid-way through 4th and brings Suns back or at least closes the gap either with amazing shots or assists and changes the defense scheme of the opponent…Although Kobe has a better supporting cast, Nash actually makes his inferior supporting cast better when he is in the game. Kobe has the help of several premier players to help his stats while Nash relies on no other help but his own to lead his team. Nash is superior to Kobe hands down.
Comment by JL — February 21, 2011 @ 2:21 am
You are forgetting though that Kobe is a lethal assassin at the end of games.
Oh wait, this just in….
Comment by Owen — February 24, 2011 @ 10:17 am
Henry Abott on TrueHoop showed this is not the case
Comment by wwinston — February 24, 2011 @ 4:07 pm
Kobe is not an assassin at the end of the games, he’s just the guy who gets the most shots and hits a decent amount. The Lakers are much, much worse on possessions where he’s operating one on one. He doesn’t have the explosiveness to draw fouls or operate effectively around the basket anymore, whereas Nash’s skills have eroded much less. He is still an elite passer and ballhandler, and has a tremendous eFG%. When the Lakers are an elite team, it’s because of team defense and rebounding, not Kobe.
Comment by Sean Vinsel — March 2, 2011 @ 10:24 pm
Just anpther Kobe hater! If Kobe was not on the LAkers they would not have the last 2 rings.
Secondly did this idiot not watch last years playoffs. Didn’t kobe carry these guys against the suns. For christ sakes gasol did not play well against the suns
Comment by mike — March 10, 2011 @ 3:45 pm
It is a good argument, however, the system that Nash is playing allows him to be more valuable. I really like Steve Nash’s game, however, he is not very good on defense. Yes, he is a great team player, however, whenever he plays against another elite point guard; he gets lit up. The system that Phoenix plays mask how deficient Nash is on defense. He can’t stop anybody and Kobe plays the other team’s best perimeter players. And you know as well as anybody in the general public knows that no matter how elite of a team the Lakers are; they are not winning a championship without Kobe. As well as any of these other the past champion:
Boston is not going to win without any of their Big 3 missing
Miami without D-Wade
San Antonio with Tim Duncan or Tony Parker
Comment by Eric Forest — March 10, 2011 @ 4:47 pm
You can delete my comments as much as you want, so long as you know that you’re an imbecile. Eric Forest made an excellent point. Nash is not deficient on the defensive end, he is non-existent. If you want to make an argument for Nash, start by stating he is the best shooter the NBA has ever seen, its the only argument you will ever win. You should seriously stop watching basketball though, and do society a favor: kill yourself.
Comment by Coby Gleason — March 10, 2011 @ 11:56 pm