<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Sebastian Telfair: An Underrated Gem!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?feed=rss2&#038;p=108" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: FullyClips.com</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>FullyClips.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-301</guid>
		<description>Tyler &amp; Justin Wonder, 

Those #s are based on Adjusted +/- as opposed to Traditional Old-Skool +/-.  The Old Skool version is exactly what you're talking about: if Telfair is replaced by someone awful then he'd look great, but if he was replaced by someone amazing, he'd look sucky.  Which makes the Old Skool +/- pretty limited in value.  However Adjusted +/- compares the player to the "average" player not their backup.  Meaning, the "Telfair In" #s would stay the same even if his backup was Chris Paul.  Thus, except for Kevin Love, all four guys performed above average when Telfair was in.  Considering how many games the Twolves lost last year, they clearly didn't consistently play above average the entire game (&amp;every game) or they'd have won a bunch more.  So your comments that Telfair's backups sucked is definitely true, as proved by the the across-the-board negative #s when he was out.  However, if the team had the completely average backup, the #s with him off-the-court would be zero.  So the key isn't to compare the #s btw him in and out, but rather that when he was in 4 out of 5 of those players had positive #s.  Rather than saying Foye was 7.5 pts better with Telfair instead of his lame backups, it's more useful to look and see that Foye was 3.2pts better with Telfair playing instead of the average player out there.
-Alex</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyler &amp; Justin Wonder, </p>
<p>Those #s are based on Adjusted +/- as opposed to Traditional Old-Skool +/-.  The Old Skool version is exactly what you&#8217;re talking about: if Telfair is replaced by someone awful then he&#8217;d look great, but if he was replaced by someone amazing, he&#8217;d look sucky.  Which makes the Old Skool +/- pretty limited in value.  However Adjusted +/- compares the player to the &#8220;average&#8221; player not their backup.  Meaning, the &#8220;Telfair In&#8221; #s would stay the same even if his backup was Chris Paul.  Thus, except for Kevin Love, all four guys performed above average when Telfair was in.  Considering how many games the Twolves lost last year, they clearly didn&#8217;t consistently play above average the entire game (&amp;every game) or they&#8217;d have won a bunch more.  So your comments that Telfair&#8217;s backups sucked is definitely true, as proved by the the across-the-board negative #s when he was out.  However, if the team had the completely average backup, the #s with him off-the-court would be zero.  So the key isn&#8217;t to compare the #s btw him in and out, but rather that when he was in 4 out of 5 of those players had positive #s.  Rather than saying Foye was 7.5 pts better with Telfair instead of his lame backups, it&#8217;s more useful to look and see that Foye was 3.2pts better with Telfair playing instead of the average player out there.<br />
-Alex</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 07:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-298</guid>
		<description>Never mind. I see all of my  previous comments now. My mistake I didn't see them still there a moment ago.

I don't know if you ever compute the player triplet for a perimeter  or a front line but I think the subunit data for perimeter-interior or backcourt-frontcourt combinations would perhaps be among the most meaningful groups to look at, though any player and the PG or the star would be important to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never mind. I see all of my  previous comments now. My mistake I didn&#8217;t see them still there a moment ago.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you ever compute the player triplet for a perimeter  or a front line but I think the subunit data for perimeter-interior or backcourt-frontcourt combinations would perhaps be among the most meaningful groups to look at, though any player and the PG or the star would be important to.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-297</guid>
		<description>Alright Wayne, thanks for the clarification. Sorry if you prefer not to have links and some of the other detail I posted. I  figured Dallas was a good bet to have player pair adjusted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright Wayne, thanks for the clarification. Sorry if you prefer not to have links and some of the other detail I posted. I  figured Dallas was a good bet to have player pair adjusted.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-296</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 05:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-296</guid>
		<description>Nice article. One little thing from the grammar police: we've been working for years to help rid basketball of the frequent and incorrect use of "myself", i.e. "My partner Jeff Sagarin and myself have...". Tip: take out the other person and then say the sentence. You are not "myself" - you are "I" or "me" depending on the sentence.

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article. One little thing from the grammar police: we&#8217;ve been working for years to help rid basketball of the frequent and incorrect use of &#8220;myself&#8221;, i.e. &#8220;My partner Jeff Sagarin and myself have&#8230;&#8221;. Tip: take out the other person and then say the sentence. You are not &#8220;myself&#8221; - you are &#8220;I&#8221; or &#8220;me&#8221; depending on the sentence.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neil Paine</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-294</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Paine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-294</guid>
		<description>Bassy had a nice adjusted +/- last year, I'll give him that. But it was the first time he's ever been significantly positive -- in 2005, he was -7.72; 2006, -7.26; 2007, 1.16; and 2008, -2.44. Instead of assuming Telfair has somehow turned his career around and is now a hidden gem, wouldn't it be more logical to assume that his 2009 performance was a one-year 2,000-minute fluke from a guy whose 6,500 minutes of past performance establishes him as a below-average player?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bassy had a nice adjusted +/- last year, I&#8217;ll give him that. But it was the first time he&#8217;s ever been significantly positive &#8212; in 2005, he was -7.72; 2006, -7.26; 2007, 1.16; and 2008, -2.44. Instead of assuming Telfair has somehow turned his career around and is now a hidden gem, wouldn&#8217;t it be more logical to assume that his 2009 performance was a one-year 2,000-minute fluke from a guy whose 6,500 minutes of past performance establishes him as a below-average player?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wwinston</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>wwinston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-293</guid>
		<description>it is  adjusted</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is  adjusted</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wwinston</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>wwinston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-292</guid>
		<description>adjusted +-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>adjusted +-</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-290</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-290</guid>
		<description>If it is adjusted player pair data it appears the raw Telfair-Foye pair data faced unusually tough opponents or weak teammates in the rest of the lineup.  Foye without Telfair is much much the same raw or adjusted, if this is adjusted.

(With the "without" being total raw +/- at 82 games minus the with Telfair data)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it is adjusted player pair data it appears the raw Telfair-Foye pair data faced unusually tough opponents or weak teammates in the rest of the lineup.  Foye without Telfair is much much the same raw or adjusted, if this is adjusted.</p>
<p>(With the &#8220;without&#8221; being total raw +/- at 82 games minus the with Telfair data)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wwinston</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>wwinston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-286</guid>
		<description>we can also rate lineups and do this for mavs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we can also rate lineups and do this for mavs</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin Wonder</title>
		<link>http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108&#038;cpage=1#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Wonder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=108#comment-285</guid>
		<description>When Telfair was out, Randy Foye, Kevin Ollie or Bobby Brown played the point. I have no doubt that Telfair is a 7.35-points-a-game better point guard than those three. I'm not sure that makes him a hidden gem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Telfair was out, Randy Foye, Kevin Ollie or Bobby Brown played the point. I have no doubt that Telfair is a 7.35-points-a-game better point guard than those three. I&#8217;m not sure that makes him a hidden gem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
